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04-26-2015, 11:38 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-26-2015, 11:40 PM by Mrmodify.)
#1
Cylinder head removal.
Evening All,
I have a 07 Vstar 1100 Classic and would like to know if the front cylinder head be remove off of the engine while the engine is still in the bike or does the engine have to be removed?
Reply
04-27-2015, 11:55 AM,
#2
RE: Cylinder head removal.
sounds like a question for @Maustarman or the untagable @Mr RCOM they really get into the engine more than most I believe.

having issues to where need to remove it?
2006 VStar Stratoliner, Freedom Performance split dual exhaust, Mustang seats, Sissy bar with back rack, bolted saddlebags to mounts.
Life's tough .. it's even tougher if you're stupid. - John Wayne

Reply
04-27-2015, 11:59 AM,
#3
Cylinder head removal.
Hi @keith !
Hey @mrmodify
No, unlike Harleys the vstar needs to have the engine out to be able to take the heads apart. (I've tried lol )
These bikes have no room in there frame is too close to the engine.
What's the problem why do you want to take it apart?
Reply
04-27-2015, 11:26 PM,
#4
RE: Cylinder head removal.
(04-27-2015, 11:59 AM)Maustarman Wrote: Hi @keith !
Hey @mrmodify
No, unlike Harleys the vstar needs to have the engine out to be able to take the heads apart. (I've tried lol )
These bikes have no room in there frame is too close to the engine.
What's the problem why do you want to take it apart?
Thanks Kieth and Maustaman,

I have a very loud, i'm gonna call it a ticking. It is louder than the stock exhaust, It is present at all RPM's and loads with no change other than speed of the tic. It will get slightly lower at a high RPM.

The bike only has slightly over 3000 miles on it. I bought it from a guy I have work with for years. He rode the bike for the first couple of years than set it up with fuel in it. He wanted me to work on it so he could sell it and I offered to buy it as is. Which I bought it. I talked to him about the noise and he told me the bike was quiet when he last rode it.

I have cleaned the fuel system, repaired a stuck clutch, and set the valve lash. I started the bike and have had this noise ever since. I have since rechecked the valve lash.

I have put around 175 miles on it. This past saturday I brought it to 2 local bike shops. Both told me the tic was not normal. One told me it was a wrist pin noise and to ride it till it fails (I cant ride till it fails thats not me) The other shop is a Yamaha dealer he told me it could be a carbon knock. He said this happens when a bike is set up with fuel in it and is not ran.Sad He also told me that he could clean it for $200 with no guarantee.

I am pretty good with engines of all types and don't believe carbon is formed from a non running engine but could be wrong.

The tic sounds like it is coming from the front cylinder, right side, at the base of the cylinder. Just about where the lower timing chain gear is. I have disassembled the right side case gears, clutch basket, camshaft, and rockers. I did have the front cylinder exhaust rocker arm and shaft fall just out of spec by the manual. I have replaced the exhaust rocker and shaft but the tic is still there.

The bike originally had yamalube 10w40 in it when I got it. I changed the oil and filter when I done the valve lash adjustment. I decided about a month ago to try synthetic to see if it would help. I did find some metal particles in the filter element. I cleaned the filter case as best I could and went ahead and installed 20w50 Mobil 1 motorcycle oil. But the tic did not change. I even went as far as to drill and installed gauges on the banjo bolts on the crankcase and the front and rear cylinder rocker shaft feeds. I got 35# idle at case and 3# at idle at both rocker shafts.

I was hoping the head could be removed with out having to remove the engine but I figured not. I guess my next step is to try some old OMC outboard carbon remover that I have. If that doesn't work then its remove the engine and tear it down completely.

Sorry for being so long winded but wanted to give you the whole story.

I greatly appreciate every ones input, I am going to fix the bike. Its a really nice bike and I think it is worth it.

Thanks John
Reply
04-28-2015, 06:52 AM,
#5
Cylinder head removal.
Hi John,
Well, I can see two things clear here;
-you definitely know your way around engines.
- you really have gone through all the basics.

Only things I can think of are:
-These bikes have pretty loud valve trains in the first place. Especially around stock pipes that are very quite.

- at some point I adjusted the valves with some gauges that had some confusing numbers and I ended up with the wrong clearances as a result things got really loud in there.
Got better gauged and readjusted clearances and things got better.
Reply
04-28-2015, 10:03 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-28-2015, 10:23 AM by pauli466.)
#6
RE: Cylinder head removal.
(04-26-2015, 11:38 PM)Mrmodify Wrote: Evening All,
I have a 07 Vstar 1100 Classic and would like to know if the front cylinder head be remove off of the engine while the engine is still in the bike or does the engine have to be removed?
all vstar models require eng removal for valve service.

(04-27-2015, 11:26 PM)Mrmodify Wrote:
(04-27-2015, 11:59 AM)Maustarman Wrote: Hi @keith !
Hey @mrmodify
No, unlike Harleys the vstar needs to have the engine out to be able to take the heads apart. (I've tried lol )
These bikes have no room in there frame is too close to the engine.
What's the problem why do you want to take it apart?
Thanks Kieth and Maustaman,

I have a very loud, i'm gonna call it a ticking. It is louder than the stock exhaust, It is present at all RPM's and loads with no change other than speed of the tic. It will get slightly lower at a high RPM.

The bike only has slightly over 3000 miles on it. I bought it from a guy I have work with for years. He rode the bike for the first couple of years than set it up with fuel in it. He wanted me to work on it so he could sell it and I offered to buy it as is. Which I bought it. I talked to him about the noise and he told me the bike was quiet when he last rode it.

I have cleaned the fuel system, repaired a stuck clutch, and set the valve lash. I started the bike and have had this noise ever since. I have since rechecked the valve lash.

I have put around 175 miles on it. This past saturday I brought it to 2 local bike shops. Both told me the tic was not normal. One told me it was a wrist pin noise and to ride it till it fails (I cant ride till it fails thats not me) The other shop is a Yamaha dealer he told me it could be a carbon knock. He said this happens when a bike is set up with fuel in it and is not ran.Sad He also told me that he could clean it for $200 with no guarantee.

I am pretty good with engines of all types and don't believe carbon is formed from a non running engine but could be wrong.

The tic sounds like it is coming from the front cylinder, right side, at the base of the cylinder. Just about where the lower timing chain gear is. I have disassembled the right side case gears, clutch basket, camshaft, and rockers. I did have the front cylinder exhaust rocker arm and shaft fall just out of spec by the manual. I have replaced the exhaust rocker and shaft but the tic is still there.

The bike originally had yamalube 10w40 in it when I got it. I changed the oil and filter when I done the valve lash adjustment. I decided about a month ago to try synthetic to see if it would help. I did find some metal particles in the filter element. I cleaned the filter case as best I could and went ahead and installed 20w50 Mobil 1 motorcycle oil. But the tic did not change. I even went as far as to drill and installed gauges on the banjo bolts on the crankcase and the front and rear cylinder rocker shaft feeds. I got 35# idle at case and 3# at idle at both rocker shafts.

I was hoping the head could be removed with out having to remove the engine but I figured not. I guess my next step is to try some old OMC outboard carbon remover that I have. If that doesn't work then its remove the engine and tear it down completely.

Sorry for being so long winded but wanted to give you the whole story.

I greatly appreciate every ones input, I am going to fix the bike. Its a really nice bike and I think it is worth it.

Thanks J

(04-27-2015, 11:26 PM)Mrmodify Wrote:
(04-27-2015, 11:59 AM)Maustarman Wrote: Hi @keith !
Hey @mrmodify
No, unlike Harleys the vstar needs to have the engine out to be able to take the heads apart. (I've tried lol )
These bikes have no room in there frame is too close to the engine.
What's the problem why do you want to take it apart?
Thanks Kieth and Maustaman,

I have a very loud, i'm gonna call it a ticking. It is louder than the stock exhaust, It is present at all RPM's and loads with no change other than speed of the tic. It will get slightly lower at a high RPM.

The bike only has slightly over 3000 miles on it. I bought it from a guy I have work with for years. He rode the bike for the first couple of years than set it up with fuel in it. He wanted me to work on it so he could sell it and I offered to buy it as is. Which I bought it. I talked to him about the noise and he told me the bike was quiet when he last rode it.

I have cleaned the fuel system, repaired a stuck clutch, and set the valve lash. I started the bike and have had this noise ever since. I have since rechecked the valve lash.

I have put around 175 miles on it. This past saturday I brought it to 2 local bike shops. Both told me the tic was not normal. One told me it was a wrist pin noise and to ride it till it fails (I cant ride till it fails thats not me) The other shop is a Yamaha dealer he told me it could be a carbon knock. He said this happens when a bike is set up with fuel in it and is not ran.Sad He also told me that he could clean it for $200 with no guarantee.

I am pretty good with engines of all types and don't believe carbon is formed from a non running engine but could be wrong.

The tic sounds like it is coming from the front cylinder, right side, at the base of the cylinder. Just about where the lower timing chain gear is. I have disassembled the right side case gears, clutch basket, camshaft, and rockers. I did have the front cylinder exhaust rocker arm and shaft fall just out of spec by the manual. I have replaced the exhaust rocker and shaft but the tic is still there.

The bike originally had yamalube 10w40 in it when I got it. I changed the oil and filter when I done the valve lash adjustment. I decided about a month ago to try synthetic to see if it would help. I did find some metal particles in the filter element. I cleaned the filter case as best I could and went ahead and installed 20w50 Mobil 1 motorcycle oil. But the tic did not change. I even went as far as to drill and installed gauges on the banjo bolts on the crankcase and the front and rear cylinder rocker shaft feeds. I got 35# idle at case and 3# at idle at both rocker shafts.

I was hoping the head could be removed with out having to remove the engine but I figured not. I guess my next step is to try some old OMC outboard carbon remover that I have. If that doesn't work then its remove the engine and tear it down completely.

Sorry for being so long winded but wanted to give you the whole story.

I greatly appreciate every ones input, I am going to fix the bike. Its a really nice bike and I think it is worth it.

Thanks John
was the speed of the noise at crankshaft speed or camshaft speed if between the two it could be timing chain assembly.the frequency will say a lot
Reply
04-28-2015, 10:29 AM,
#7
RE: Cylinder head removal.
With only 3k miles on it I would try an ounce of Sea Foam in the oil and an ounce or two in the fuel tank and ride it around for a bit (three or four rides long enough to get the engine up to full temperature for at least ten minutes or so, and at varying speeds, with full cool downs between). Then change the oil and filter again. Sea Foam in the oil is pretty good at loosening up things that have been crudded together by sludged oil. (Something like this is probably what the shop that offered to clean it for $200 with no guarantee was planning on doing, actually.)

However, as somebody mentioned, if this is your first V* it may be normal, or at least something pretty minor. The valve trains on these things are very, very noisy though I would characterize it as sounding more like a sewing machine than a "tick". I bought my 650 new and the valve train has always been louder than the pipes, even the V&H Cruzers that I installed (baffles left in the Cruzers). That is at idle and at low loads...at high loads when the Cruzers are blatting good they are, of course, louder. If you are expecting the engine to be quieter than stock pipes on a V* it probably ain't gonna happen!
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
04-28-2015, 08:50 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-29-2015, 12:58 PM by Mrmodify.)
#8
RE: Cylinder head removal.
Does any one know how to post audio on this site?
Reply
04-29-2015, 05:22 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-29-2015, 05:25 PM by Mrmodify.)
#9
RE: Cylinder head removal.
[/quote]was the speed of the noise at crankshaft speed or camshaft speed if between the two it could be timing chain assembly.the frequency will say a lot
[/quote]

Paul, as best I can tell the tic is half the speed of the crank. It is a steady tic just like one exhaust pipe has a steady puff. I recorded the tic and the exhaust of one cylinder, slowed the recorded speed down and i get one tic one puff one tic one puff and so on.
I really don't want to pull this engine and go into it with out having a clue what the noise is. And as has been said it could be normal. But yamaha dealer says no.
I think my next step is to take most of the lash out of the front exhaust valve and see what changes if any. I'm guessing its the front exhaust valve. Then it going to be the sea foam.
Reply
04-29-2015, 05:27 PM,
#10
RE: Cylinder head removal.
heck try the sea form before tearin into her, worth a shot!
2006 VStar Stratoliner, Freedom Performance split dual exhaust, Mustang seats, Sissy bar with back rack, bolted saddlebags to mounts.
Life's tough .. it's even tougher if you're stupid. - John Wayne

Reply
04-29-2015, 06:04 PM,
#11
RE: Cylinder head removal.
Yep, I'd Sea Foam it, then if the tick doesn't go away I'd pull the side cover while I was changing the oil and check the timing chain. Check for tension and then push the bike in gear to roll the chain all the way around and examine it closely. Make sure all the links move freely and that there aren't any obvious dings. You did say the sound seems to be coming from the bottom of the engine, right? If it was valve lash I'd expect the tick to be coming more from around the head.

For that matter, it could be the oil pump, it's right in that area too. I'm not sure if it's run at crank speed or geared down, though. The parts breakdown in the manual isn't that clear. It looks like it's gear driven off the crank and if the drawing is to scale the gear on the pump looks like it might be roughly twice the size of the one on the shaft...

If it's a really loud tick from metal to metal contact you might get lucky and be able to figure out exactly where it's coming from by turning it over manually with the side cover off like that.
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
04-30-2015, 10:47 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-30-2015, 10:57 AM by pauli466.)
#12
RE: Cylinder head removal.
was the speed of the noise at crankshaft speed or camshaft speed if between the two it could be timing chain assembly.the frequency will say a lot



Paul, as best I can tell the tic is half the speed of the crank. It is a steady tic just like one exhaust pipe has a steady puff. I recorded the tic and the exhaust of one cylinder, slowed the recorded speed down and i get one tic one puff one tic one puff and so on.
I really don't want to pull this engine and go into it with out having a clue what the noise is. And as has been said it could be normal. But yamaha dealer says no.
I think my next step is to take most of the lash out of the front exhaust valve and see what changes if any. I'm guessing its the front exhaust valve. Then it going to be the sea foam.

half the crank speed is very slow. you can try putting your ear to a long screwdriver and pressing it to the area you think the noise is. if you spin the engine by hand only go clockwise. you can jump the timing chain if you rotate eng counter clockwise. I had a friend with the same problem you got. it ended up being a sticking valve. we fixed it by removing carbon from the valve guide with a special wire brush. the exhaust puff is a sure giveaway of a valve problem as the bottom end on these engines is almost bullet proof. the only thing that destroys the bottom would be contaminated oil or no oil.
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11-22-2015, 04:27 PM,
#13
RE: Cylinder head removal.
Evening all, I have been riding the bike since I have posted last. I may have maybe put 300 miles on her. Don't want to get to far from house in case I have a failure I have not done the sea foam yet but I am. I did roll it into my shop this week and took a stethoscope and a camera to the engine. I have foudn that the noise is the loudest at the cylinder head gasket. I slowed the engine idle down to a point that it would barely keep running and it is a double tick. tick tick pause tick tick pause. It sounds like the valves are slamming hard when they seat. The rear cylinder does not have the same noise. I did find that someone had put the baffle in backwards on the front camshaft cover but that was not the noise.
Reply
11-22-2015, 07:28 PM,
#14
RE: Cylinder head removal.
(11-22-2015, 04:27 PM)Mrmodify Wrote: Evening all, I have been riding the bike since I have posted last. I may have maybe put 300 miles on her. Don't want to get to far from house in case I have a failure I have not done the sea foam yet but I am. I did roll it into my shop this week and took a stethoscope and a camera to the engine. I have foudn that the noise is the loudest at the cylinder head gasket. I slowed the engine idle down to a point that it would barely keep running and it is a double tick. tick tick pause tick tick pause. It sounds like the valves are slamming hard when they seat. The rear cylinder does not have the same noise. I did find that someone had put the baffle in backwards on the front camshaft cover but that was not the noise.
there shouldn't be a baffle on the front cam cover, only the rear one has the baffle to stop oil from getting into the crankcase breather hose. a compression check will tell you if a valve is hanging or leaking. a double tick on a rocker indicates a sticking valve, a compression check can confirm it. there's not much you can do to free it up other than cleaning the guide, which requires head removal. it's hard to dissolve carbon, generally it has to be scraped or wire brushed.
Lightbulb dumb bikers don't get to be old bikers
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11-22-2015, 07:30 PM,
#15
Cylinder head removal.
(11-22-2015, 07:28 PM)pauli466 Wrote:
(11-22-2015, 04:27 PM)Mrmodify Wrote: Evening all, I have been riding the bike since I have posted last. I may have maybe put 300 miles on her. Don't want to get to far from house in case I have a failure I have not done the sea foam yet but I am. I did roll it into my shop this week and took a stethoscope and a camera to the engine. I have foudn that the noise is the loudest at the cylinder head gasket. I slowed the engine idle down to a point that it would barely keep running and it is a double tick. tick tick pause tick tick pause. It sounds like the valves are slamming hard when they seat. The rear cylinder does not have the same noise. I did find that someone had put the baffle in backwards on the front camshaft cover but that was not the noise.
there shouldn't be a baffle on the front cam cover, only the rear one has the baffle to stop oil from getting into the crankcase breather hose. a compression check will tell you if a valve is hanging or leaking. a double tick on a rocker indicates a sticking valve, a compression check can confirm it. there's not much you can do to free it up other than cleaning the guide, which requires head removal. it's hard to dissolve carbon, generally it has to be scraped or wire brushed.

Pauli... The 1100 has the baffle in the front cylinder ... The 650 in the rear..
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